Neliel
Administrator
Site Founder[M:9001:9001:9001:9001:]
Nel used to be an Espada, but then she took an axe to the knee.
Posts: 173
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Post by Neliel on Jan 14, 2013 18:35:08 GMT -5
The idea for the new system is more of a seven point method. To level a single skill, one will need EXP to raise the level. Seven strength levels:
Blank - Poor - Average - Proficient - Adept - Superior - Unrivaled - Godly The first level will require 40 Experience from Blank to Poor, and raising with each level after. Ex: 40, 80, 120, 160, 240, 360. Each class will replace both stats and the Skill Paths, becoming merged into one. This is more geared to make stats not matter nearly as much, but still keep a defined limit to strength. The various categories are below: Hoho- Determines speed and agility as well as being able to focus on footwork. Each level adds 5 more feet to fast movement techniques. Governs:Airwalking/ Buoyancy (Poor) Shunpo (Average) Sonido (Average) Hirenyaku (Average) Sos(Average) Bringer Light( Average) Zanjutsu- Determines the user skill and efficiency with a weapon, primarily that of zanpaktou or bladed weapons. The higher one is in Zanjutsu, the faster they can react with their weapon. Governs:Shikai (Average) Bankai (Superior) Zanjutsu techniques Hakuda- Determines the overall strength of an individual and their efficiency with hand to hand combat. The higher one is in Hakuda, the more power they can place behind each blow and the more skilled they are with their legs and fists. Governs:Enten Kobushi (Adept) Hakuda techniques Kidou- Determines the user's skill with reishi based attacks such as Kido, Cero, or any other attack directly involving the usage of spirit particles to attack. Governs:Kido Cero (Poor) Bala (Average) Shunko (Adept-Superior) Any Kidou based attack Reiatsu- Determines the user's overall reiatsu and durability and applies a force resembling that of gravity to nearby individuals. Arrancar may learn Hierro at a certain level where others may learn Reiatsu Barrier. Each level adds additional strength to the spiritual armor, being able to withstand a level higher. Governs:Blut (Superior) Ginto (not actual strength, but which tubes may be used) Fullbring (Average) Eusiuna (Superior) Gonzui (adept) Resurecion (Average) Spiritual Pressure Hierro (Poor- becomes better as level goes higher) Reiatsu Barrier Quincy Class Exclusive:Quincies have certain skills that replaces others due to their nature of absorbing reishi instead of expelling reiatsu. Replaces ZanjutsuMarksman- Determines a Quincy's accuracy and ability with a bow. The higher their Marksman, the more arrows they may fire and the more wellplaced their shots will be. Governs:Quincy Arrows (Poor) Seele Schneider Replaces KidouAbsorption- Determines a Quincy's prowess in absorbing reishi, or spirit particles out of the air. The higher a Quincy is in this, the more reishi they can absorb and the stronger their arrows become. Governs:Ransotengai (Superior) Lethz Stil (Average) Quincy arrows Starting EXP:Head Captain/ Cero Espada = 1150 Taicho/ Espada 1-4=830 Vasto Lorde / Espada 5-9 / Red Capitol Leader = 780 Vice Captain/ Human Leader / Visored = 650 Seated Shinigami/ Human Advisor / Arrancar = 350 Mod Soul = 310 Hollow (Adjuchas/ Gillian) = 310 Human (Quincy/Fullbringer/High Spec/ Plus) = 230 Pluses = 150 Need opinions on the possible system change. Of course all the current members will receive enough EXP to boost one of their levels as compensation should the system go into effect. |
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Methias
Hollow/Arrancar
Tercero Espada[M:70:180:130:170:]
Posts: 6
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Post by Methias on Jan 14, 2013 20:55:25 GMT -5
Before I vote, I would like to ask a few questions about this current system, and point out a few things which I feel are missing.
Firstly... EXP - How is it gained? If it is by posts (Like current stats), at what rate? If not, I'm assuming a moderation forum where someone checks a topic and grants EXP based on it. On that note, is there going to be an EXP Cap? Much like the current stat caps for the races. Maximum number of Godly stats at any given Rank? And... That's pretty much it for the general specifics of the system.
As for my other concerns... I've already menioned how things scale in the chat box, and is pretty irrelevant because that will be determined shortly within the time span of this system going forward (If it does). However, there are a few issues to me personally that I would like to see rectified... Or at least put my opinion forward xP.
Firstly, Shunko. It is classified as the result of mixing Kido with Hakuda. This system should reflect that. As such, I would have Shunko in its own area, requiring an Adept / Adept split to be eligible for Incomplete Shunko, Superior / Superior for Complete.
Secondly, I believe Shunpo Varient should be added to the Hoho list. Utsusemi (The after image technique of the Shihoin) and such. Permanent release Shikai appears to have disappeared from this list as well. Would this still be possible? How about Segunda Etapa, Bankai final form (Ichigo style) and Visored Res? These states (With the exception of maybe BFF) I'm assuming are going to be added if it goes through, but it is also something I'd like to know.
On the currently listed ranks I've got a few personal issues. Adjuchas / Gillian shouldn't be the same power firstly, and while I can see why... I don't think it's fair anyone have to RP a Gillian. Remove it and make a lower power level (Equally Human starter ranks) for the Base Hollow. Let them skip the mindless Gillian farming if they're starting at the base level, and perhaps even give a reward for doing so (High Speed Regeneration that persists through Shinigamification?). That'll let Humans who aren't lucky enough to get a high rank have some realistic opponent at least. But this is just something that should perhaps be modified once the site has filled up a bit more. As for any other issues I have on this subject, well... There's not too many really, although I do feel the non-Hollow/Shinigami races are a bit on the low side. Me thinks that the Human Advisor should be moved above Seated Shinigami, and below VC.
That's all I have for now... More may come at some point because I'm an ass...
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Neliel
Administrator
Site Founder[M:9001:9001:9001:9001:]
Nel used to be an Espada, but then she took an axe to the knee.
Posts: 173
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Post by Neliel on Jan 15, 2013 2:21:16 GMT -5
Well, as far as I am at this point, EXP will be given out regardless of whether you are low ranked or high ranked. 5 EXP will be gained for every 10 posts you obtain, plus a little extra depending on the quality of the post and when faced with seemingly unbeatable opponents and coming out alive(so in that area, low ranked may prosper against higher ranks while the high ranks pawn everything, not gaining any experience) The Academies may allow their students to earn more EXP and thus develop faster than those outside, but only in training threads. And the max would be the same for all races, that of the Godly status which in itself would be difficult to obtain. And EXP will also be used for the basic abilities after creation and any abilities you wish to add to your character. And I may add one more level to the mix before Godly for a total of eight or nine achievable levels.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing, but as it is, Shunko is more of charging Kidou through your limbs than actually based in Hakuda, it only serves to strengthen Hakuda. So Shunko would raise the Hakuda and Kidou up one or two levels, with the Incomplete and the Completed versions. As I mentioned before, Godly would be Aizen level and I'll probably add one or two more levels of expertise for Shikai, Bankai and the two forms of Shunko.
As far as Ability Variants go, aka Shunpo Variants and Custom Ceros, they will be allocated to their respective stats and I'll say Superior must be achieved before an ability variant may be created. With Custom Cero, it is Kidou. With Shunpo or Sonido Variants, it will be Hoho. So yeah, the skill paths will merge with the new leveling. Kido will also be governed, but anyone still may create one for a price, with the Unnumbered belonging to those with Superior + Kidou. Kido + Ginto will be rearranged based on the leveling system as for their strength.
Yeah, I never planned on allowing anyone to rp a Gillian unless they really wanted to. As it stands, it will be the same as before. Adjuchas and Vasto Lorde will be playable and I'll include Lesser Hollows with stats equal to those of humans. An evolution thread will still need to be initiated to detail their progress from a Lesser Hollow to that of a Menos Adjuchas class.
And yeah, I see no problem with allowing a Hollow work their way up to Shinigamification and keep HSR if they work through becoming an Arrancar while going through the whole evolution process..
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Atrix
Administrator
Administrator[M:0:0:0:0:]
Posts: 19
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Post by Atrix on Jan 15, 2013 16:55:42 GMT -5
My only real issue with this set up is the lack of depth in terms of character creation in comparison to the current stats that are in place. This is something I mentioned in chatbox the other day. It's not really an issue as much as it is a fear, a fear that with this there will no longer be an ability to point and say "I'm close in skill to so and so" or "He's a glass cannon" (as Johnny put it). Like I stated, I'm not a huge fan of terms like these. They are a bit too solid, to vague, and too large to really say "Yeah I'm lower in skill, but I can still keep up." or something like that. With this it just has a feel that is more like "Oh I'm lower, and that's that."
Now. That being said here is why I voted for yes.
With this new system it eliminates people fussing over not having certain abilities. Which is a huge plus, and something that I think people need to take into consideration. Especially considering that I know that it bothered me a bit too. On top of that, this now CLEARLY separates leaders from "captains" or the "elite". Which was another problem the other system had. With this everything is centered around a single "currency" as opposed to having to balance out EXP vs Stat gain. This makes it easier for you guys as members to calculate what you have, what you've gained, where you want things to go, etc etc, and for staff to tally up who gets what, who has allocated the proper amount, etc etc.
Not only that, but with this system it's not that you CAN'T display what your character excels in. It's just not as detailed as before, which isn't a HUGE problem mind you. If anything it's still the same as before. What's the difference between saying you have 100 points in agility (or Adept for example's sake) and your enemy has 200 (Superior)? Nothing. It still comes down to who has the better RP skills, does it not? You'll still be able to claim your target cannot hit you for that damage because of x y z, and you can still get the feeling of being "over powered" by an enemy and get that warm fuzzy feeling of a job well done when you thrash them. Your typical "tanks" and "glass cannons" and "blasters" can still be seen and pointed out, it's just that they are leveled and based on a different scale.
In reality, this system has not changed anything from the old one except HOW things are judged and HOW things are viewed. There is not a lot of detail with this, but that's not always a bad thing. As long as EXP is easier to come by with this method of doing things, I see no issue in running with this. As I stated when I first joined the site, I'm not even a fan of Stats and I went with this. Also, there is no harm in letting this system get FULLY completed before writing it off. After it's finished we can put it through a trial period. If it works out, then cool. If not, there's nothing saying we can't go back to stats.
/end
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Neliel
Administrator
Site Founder[M:9001:9001:9001:9001:]
Nel used to be an Espada, but then she took an axe to the knee.
Posts: 173
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Post by Neliel on Jan 15, 2013 18:59:56 GMT -5
Keep in mind nothing in this system is concrete yet. And I'm starting to lean more towards a ten point skill system as opposed to a seven point to further differentiate the different classes of humans. As it is, Power had governed both physical strength as well as durability, something I had become uneasy about. This time, Reiatsu would naturally provide a greater defense with perks like Reiatsu Barrier (soon to be Reiatsu Armor) and Hierro. Reiatsu Armor would be the default for all races aside from Arrancar, who have a heightened version entitled Hierro. At a high level of Reiatsu, one would become similar to Kenpachi as striking him may only cause your character's hands to bleed, but doing nothing to the wielder of said reiatsu.
Each skill level would be about the equivalent of having 50 more stats with the current system. Thus one may still stand a decent chance against someone whose only slightly above them, but the further their skills are, the more of a disadvantage they will be at.
And I may just keep stats and adjust them accordingly to the new system. So you'll be able to use EXP and allocate them to one of the new categories. Poor being 1-50, Average being 51-150, Adept being 151-250, Superior being 251-400, Massive being 401-550, and Godly being 551- 750. You'll still have stats, but each one will classify under a different ranking so to speak and then the abilities will be a little more vague as being able to be trained for at a certain ranking.
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Methias
Hollow/Arrancar
Tercero Espada[M:70:180:130:170:]
Posts: 6
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Post by Methias on Jan 15, 2013 22:17:47 GMT -5
With the exp requirements, I'd really suggest either lowering them for the lower ranks, or bumping humans and such up. Right now, with five categories, Non-Elite humans / Quincy / Hollow etc. are going to be having a ridiculously hard time. Namely, I feel a low rank such as non-elite Humans should start with 280. This would allow them all poor, with one average in a single area. Or, ideally, 360-400. Allowing them around 2 averages and the rest poor, and allowing for more customization. With 230, it is impossible for the Human race to use all their starting stat points... In fact, most suffer from this issue. If the stat requirements stay as they are in that example, I suggest...
Essentially, I'd like to see these numbers that directly correspond with an average that can make use of all the stat points. These in my eyes are ideal. If we're using numbers, we don't want numbers left over. Thus the points acquired should be based on what is needed for the "Average" of that rank, I.E, all poor and an Average. And if Shikai (For instance) requires an Average, a seated Shinigami should be able to have a Shikai and not be forced to start without. Just my opinion.
If it goes like this, it's hardly any different to what we have now. Either make it numbers based, or tier based. Don't try and mix and match the two, it's just giving stat ranges a glorified title. Needless, essentially.
My final addition is to say that Low Ranks should certainly rank up faster than High Ranks. A Third Seat Shinigami should be growing at a much faster rate than a Captain of the Gotei 13. Adjust EXP gain via starting rank. Reward those that don't get given a rank with the ability to get stronger faster and eventually surpass them. I don't see why a Shinigami third seat should have to make... 920 more posts than the Sotaicho to equal him, while the Sotaicho can post just 80 times and still keep his strength. Those starting at high ranks should be closer to their pinnacle than those below, and such things mean that those below should eventually match and surpass the higher ranks. If everyone gains at the same rate this is an impossibility.
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Neliel
Administrator
Site Founder[M:9001:9001:9001:9001:]
Nel used to be an Espada, but then she took an axe to the knee.
Posts: 173
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Post by Neliel on Jan 15, 2013 23:26:08 GMT -5
And basically they will. Like I mentioned, the lower ranks will be given more experience when facing higher ranked individuals, moreso of adapting under higher stress. With Hollow, they will be able to eat and consume fallen souls, integrating them into their own being. At a certain level of Reiatsu, they will be able to evolve. High ranked characters will be required to spend more EXP to advance, thus allowing lower ranked a chance to catch up in terms of strength.
The Fushicho and Shin'o Academies will be an example of the lower ranked growing quicker. With Shin'o, inexperienced Shinigami and even Pluses may gain EXP quicker and be brought up to a level of most unseated shinigami and then given a rank and a division to which they specialize in.
With Fushicho Academy, the advisors are formed from the strongest of each human class aka Quincy, Fullbringer, and High Spec. The Leader surpasses even the advisors and the students may gain EXP quicker by learning exclusive academy techniques and learning to hone their own abilities.
And I'm thinking stages of Arrancar as well. Since we don't have a Hogyoku type item, a hollow making the change into an Arrancar will have to successfully tear off their mask and seal their hollow power into a zanpaktou, something that is rather difficult to accomplish. Otherwise they'd be classified as incomplete or psuedo-arrancar until they can efficiently seal away their hollow powers and achieve Resureccion. An example would be Grand Fischer, who had managed to seal most of his hollow half away, though he was still an incomplete arrancar. And then the guards of Las Noches were Pseudo Arrancar, who had begun to tear their mask off, but still lacked zanpaktou and possessed their natural forms.
I don't see much of a problem with this other than Pluses should be grouped with humans or at least a little lower. You have Rukongai citizens and then the living world Pluses. Gonjo was one of these Pluses, though he had a little technique similar to Kido and then some may use simple weapons like unseated shinigami using Asauchi due to being unable to properly manifest their own zanpaktou yet. Shikai is a requirement for the higher seated positions and mastering it is required for Fukutaicho, while Bankai is the requirement for Taicho aside from 11th division.
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Methias
Hollow/Arrancar
Tercero Espada[M:70:180:130:170:]
Posts: 6
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Post by Methias on Jan 16, 2013 18:21:06 GMT -5
Regardless, 10 exp for 10 posts is actually a downgrade to what we have now. Almost half as valuable compared to the current stat points. But that's not what I meant to imply. Yeah, give them bonuses for fighting higher ranked opponents - Yet I still feel that if, say, two seated Shinigami were to spar, they should get more experience than two Captain in a spar. Essentially, they are going to be far further away from their maximum potential. The closer you are to your maximum, the harder it should be to grow.
A Captain having ten spars shouldn't gain as much as a seated Shinigami having ten spars, assuming both are fighting equal ranked opponents. The seated Shinigami is going to be learning far more than a Captain who has been through all these trials already. That's what I have to say... People who start at lower ranks should gain EXP at double the rate of someone who's a high rank, regardless of situation.
Needless to say, I forgot that Rukongai citizens were actually Plus... In that case, lets try something like:
Plus (With Spirit Chain): 40 (In Reiatsu)
Plus (After Shinigami Purification): 320 (All Poor, one average)
If starting as a Plus, you choose where you start. Regardless, when a Plus with a Spirit Chain is sent to Rukongai, they get boosted to 320 stats, signifying the loss of the Spirit Chain kicking them in the face. Thoughts?
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Neliel
Administrator
Site Founder[M:9001:9001:9001:9001:]
Nel used to be an Espada, but then she took an axe to the knee.
Posts: 173
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Post by Neliel on Jan 17, 2013 23:03:56 GMT -5
Yes, perhaps 15 for low ranked, but they will still be able to grow more rapidly while in training or fighting against a higher ranked. And I was also thinking solo training threads to gain Exp for skill levels. As of the moment, we just have training threads for earning techniques and abilities.
Might work. I'd still rather have Pluses possess all poor at the most when starting out unless they progressed from a human or hollow, and they may have a unique technique they had as a human/hollow. Shin'o Academy will allow them to work a couple of their skills up to Average quickly.
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Atrix
Administrator
Administrator[M:0:0:0:0:]
Posts: 19
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Post by Atrix on Jan 29, 2013 10:51:54 GMT -5
So is this happening? I actually would much rather have this happen than not...Not gonna lie. Having to fuss and fight with myself to get abilities I should already have...kiiiiiiiiiind of a buzzkill, kiiiiiiiiiiind of annoying.
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Neliel
Administrator
Site Founder[M:9001:9001:9001:9001:]
Nel used to be an Espada, but then she took an axe to the knee.
Posts: 173
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Post by Neliel on Jan 31, 2013 23:27:54 GMT -5
This is the modified system, taking the numerical stats and separating them into different categories.
Hoho- Determines speed and agility as well as being able to focus on footwork. Each 50 one has in Hoho adds 5 feet to fast movement techniques.
Governs:
Airwalking/ Buoyancy (50)
Shunpo (70)
Sonido (80)
Hirenyaku (70)
Sos(95)
Bringer Light(70)
Zanjutsu- Determines the user skill and efficiency with a weapon, primarily that of zanpaktou or bladed weapons. The higher one is in Zanjutsu, the faster they can react with their soul weapon or any weapon. This also determines the link with their blade for Shinigami, as a higher Zanjutsu (50/150) will grant them the ability to release.
Governs:
Seele Schnieder (close combat)
Shikai (70)
Bankai (200)
Zanjutsu techniques
Hakuda- Determines the overall strength of an individual and their efficiency with hand to hand combat. The higher one is in Hakuda, the more power they can place behind each blow and the more skilled they are with using their legs and fists as weapons.
Governs:
Enten Kobushi (250)
Hakuda techniques
Physical Attacks
Kidou- Determines the user's skill with reishi based attacks such as Kido, Cero, or any other attack directly involving the manipulation of spirit particles.
Governs:
Kido
Quincy Arrows (Default)
Ransotengai (200)
Cero (100)
Bala (80)
Shunko (250/350)
Any Kidou based attack
Reiatsu- Determines the user's overall reiatsu and durability and applies a force resembling that of gravity to nearby individuals when flared. The amount of Reiatsu also dictates the durability of spiritual armor, allowing the user to be able to withstand more damage.
Governs:
Blut (250)
Ginto (not actual strength, but which tubes may be used)
Fullbring (80)
Fullbring Final Form (200)
Eusiuna (250)
Resurecion (Default)
Segunda Etapa (400)
Visored Rez (400)
Spiritual Pressure (default)
Hierro (Default for hollow/arrancar)
Reiatsu Barrier (default for non hollow)
Starting Stats
Head Captain/ Cero Espada = 1300
Taicho = 900
Espada 1-4=950
Red Capitol Leader = 950
Espada 5-9 = 850
Vasto Lorde = 800
Vice Captain/ Human Leader / Visored = 700
Seated Shinigami/ Human Advisor / Arrancar = 350
Mod Soul = 320
Hollow (Adjuchas/ Gillian) = 320
Human (Quincy/Fullbringer/High Spec/ Plus) = 300
Pluses = 200
Earning Stats
Low ranked characters - 3 points per post
High ranked characters - 2 points per post
Academy Training - 5 points per post
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